MAUNA KEA, Hawaii – On Monday, June 1st, the University of Hawaii issued its promised written response to Governor David Ige’s requests concerning stewardship of Mauna Kea, which were announced at a news conference on May 26. The governor’s intervention comes as construction of the $1.4 billion Thirty Meter Telescope on Mauna Kea has been delayed due to strong opposition.
Over the past months the University of Hawaiʻi has received substantial input regarding our stewardship of Maunakea. Governor David Ige’s statement on May 26 is consistent with what we have heard from the community. We accept that the university has not yet met all of our obligations to the mountain or the expectations of the community. For that, we apologize and lay out this outline of an action plan for improving our stewardship. We will provide a more detailed schedule by July 2015 following additional consultations. (University of Hawaii – June 1, 2015)
Big Island Video News presents the governor’s requests and the UH responses, item by item, and will include statements from two of the main opponents to the Thirty Meter Telescope that were given after the governor’s news conference on May 26.
Mauna Kea Cultural Council
The governor is asking to create a new council that will apparently interface directly with the Department of Land and Natural Resources.
We will change the management of the entire summit, all of which is state land, to bring cultural voices into the leadership structure so that all acts from here forward are sensitive to and observant of culture. We are establishing a Mauna Kea Cultural Council to work with the Board and the Department of Land and Natural Resources, and the Governor’s Office, to do a better job. Among the tasks for this group will be the review of all leases and lease renewals, of all proposed rules impacting the mountain especially those relating to access, of any EIS preparation and any cultural impact assessments, of decommissioning plans and execution, working on leasing portions of the mountain to cultural groups, and the reconciliation of the various other uses of the mountain including native species protection and forestry.We are currently putting the group together and hope to make an announcement on that shortly. In asking people to be part of this work, I am not making support for TMT a requirement of those who agree to serve… (Governor David Ige – May 26, 2015)
It remains to be seen how this group will be chosen, or who will be interested in serving on it. Response from TMT opponents has not been favorable.
There have been many advisory groups that have been established for Mauna Kea, and all have been nothing more than rubber-stamps for bad state government. We object to the creation of more of the same! It is outrageous to suggest that we the Hawaiian people should be used to limit access to Mauna Kea! (Mauna Kea Hui – May 26, 2015)
We also do not at all support the proposed establishment of yet another advisory council for the future of Mauna a Wākea and we call on the lāhui Hawaiʻi to boycott this advisory council. While we appreciate the thought, we find the idea of this council to be disingenuous. There already is an advisory council for Mauna a Wākea under the Office of Mauna Kea Management and their advice seems to fall upon deaf ears. Furthermore, over 90% of public testimony on this issue has been in opposition to the construction of the TMT on Mauna a Wākea and we have no reason to believe that the voices and beliefs of an advisory council would or should hold any more weight then those already shared by our community. The community has been clear in advising the state-no further development. (Ku Kia’i Mauna – May 26, 2015)
The university did not address this in their June 1st response, however they did mention their existing group of cultural advisors, Kahu Ku Mauna.
As we move forward, we commit to increased engagement and active listening with the community, particularly from Kahu Kū Mauna, which has provided sage advice and guidance. (University of Hawaii – June 1, 2015)
Lease & Sub-Lease Compliance
The governor apparently wants the university to clamp down on current observatories and tour companies.
We are also committed to doing a much better job of monitoring compliance with all activities under any leases or sub-leases, and to act immediately if there are issues that need resolution. Such action may include the reopening of current leases or the suspension of processing extension requests. (Governor David Ige – May 26, 2015)
UH Must Do Better
Although the university did not mention this request in their June 1st response, UH president David Lassner apologized on the same day as the govrnor’s news conference for where UH efforts have fallen short to date.
The University must begin by being very forthright and public in accepting its need to do a better job in the future. (Governor David Ige – May 26, 2015)
His first suggestion is that the state “accept its responsibility to do a better job in the future.” We would also like to see the state accept itʻs responsibility to do a better job now, and this begins with stopping any further development and desecration upon Mauna a Wakea. (Ku Kia’i Mauna – May 26, 2015)
TMT Site Will Be Last Area
The governor did not ask for TMT to be the last telescope, but he did ask for the northern plateau, the sire for the planned TMT, to be the last place developed for astronomy.
The University must formally and legally bind itself to the commitment that this is THE last area on the mountain where a telescope project will be contemplated or sought. (Governor David Ige – May 26, 2015)
The Thirty Meter Telescope (TMT) will be the last new observatory site developed on Maunakea. Any new observatories may only be placed on existing sites. Both of these conditions are contained in the Decommissioning Plan for the Mauna Kea Observatories (PDF), approved by the Board of Land and Natural Resources in 2010. The university will meet with the Department of Land and Natural Resources (DLNR) to draft a document to make this commitment legally binding. (University of Hawaii – June 1, 2015)
Decommissioning
The governor addressed the call to take down unused or obsolete observatories, a step towards returning the summit to its natural state.
The University must decommission as many telescopes as possible with one to begin this year and a least 25% of all telescopes gone by the time TMT is ready for operation. (Governor David Ige – May 26, 2015)
On May 28, the Caltech Submillimeter Observatory announced it will end operations in September 2015. They will be the first observatory to implement the Decommissioning Plan for the Mauna Kea Observatories, and should complete the process by 2018. We are discussing with the directors of other observatories a definitive schedule of decommissioning of other observatories. We will meet with the director of DLNR this week to review the administrative process for decommissioning. By the end of 2015 we will present an implementation plan for the removal of 25 percent of the summit observatories and the restoration of the sites by the time TMT is ready for operation. (University of Hawaii – June 1, 2015)
Restart Lease EIS
The governor told the university to get back to the drawing board on its request to extend the Mauna Kea master lease.
The University must restart the EIS process for its lease extension including a full cultural impact assessment as part of that process. (Governor David Ige – May 26, 2015)
Over the past two months, we have heard many new ideas regarding the university’s master lease for the Mauna Kea Science Reserve. We will restart the Environmental Impact Statement process for our new lease, enabling us to include additional options for consideration, and conduct a cultural impact assessment. (University of Hawaii – June 1, 2015)
In Igeʻs fourth suggestion, he calls for the need to restart the EIS process and conduct a full cultural impact assessment. Ige essentially acknowledged that there are flaws in the current EIS as well as no CIA, therefore it would be contradictory for him to support any further development on Mauna a Wākea. We call upon David Ige to put a halt on any further construction. (Ku Kia’i Mauna – May 26, 2015)
Limit Access
A request to limit access to the mountain in some way has recreational users and tour groups alike concerned.
Access rules that significantly limit and condition non-cultural access to the mountain must be moved expeditiously through the process. There is far too much routine access to this special place and it cannot continue to carry this burden. (Governor David Ige – May 26, 2015)
We have been consulting with community groups to develop administrative rules for the Mauna Kea Science Reserve, including rules that would ensure cultural access while improving management of non-cultural access.
In June, we will begin a series of open house sessions for further public consultation and we will place particular attention on the scope of rules on access. We will have draft rules prepared by October 2015 to begin the formal public consultation phase of the rule making process. (University of Hawaii – June 1, 2015)
Cultural Training
Its unclear if the governor had his proposed Mauna Kea Cultural Council in mind for this request, but it appears the university would like to have the OMKM Kahu Ku Mauna involved.
What I would hope to see is that future visitor access to the mountain be handled through the Native Hawaiian community so that visitors have a greater understanding of and respect for the cultural significance of the mountain. Anyone going on the mountain must receive training in the cultural aspects of the mountain and how to be respectful to the cultural areas. (Governor David Ige – May 26, 2015)
We will work with Kahu Kū Mauna and other Native Hawaiian advisors to develop new cultural training and educational programs about Maunakea. Training is currently required for people working on the mountain and we will look for opportunities for improvement. We will develop training and education programs for visitors to ensure that all who come to Maunakea understand its cultural significance and how to respect the mountain. To ensure our cultural training and education programs are accurate, effective and continuing, we will establish at UH Hilo a new program to lead and evaluate our expanded cultural stewardship and educational activities related to Maunakea. (University of Hawaii – June 1, 2015)
Reduce Length of Lease Extension
The university’s master lease expires in 2033, and right now they are going through the process of extended the lease. Its a critical step towards making the billion dollar TMT economically viable.
I am asking that the University substantially reduce the length of its request for a lease extension. We need to ensure that the stewardship of the mountain is revisited in an appropriate period and we all need to take another look at activities on the mountain in mid-century. (Governor David Ige – May 26, 2015)
The requested term of the new lease will be substantially less than a 65-year extension. (University of Hawaii – June 1, 2015)
The general lease is up in 2033, the University of Hawaii ends its involvement on Mauna Kea in 2033 not mid-century–not in 2050. All telescopes need to be removed in 2033 and until that time all telescopes operating on the summit and slopes need to pay “fair-market” lease rent starting immediately and for rent past due. (Mauna Kea Hui – May 26, 2015)
Return 10,000 acres to DLNR
This is already under consideration as the third alternative in the master lease EIS.
I am also asking the University to voluntarily return to full DLNR jurisdiction all lands not specifically needed for astronomy. This would involve over 10,000 acres and would allow for culture-based management of much of the mountain. This was an alternative proposed in their pending EIS document for their lease renewal request and would be a significant act of good faith in ensuring the proper balance of activities on the summit. (Governor David Ige – May 26, 2015)
We will consult with DLNR on how we can identify and return to their management lands that are currently part of the Mauna Kea Science Reserve that are not used for astronomy. We will accordingly modify our application for a new lease to reduce the total acreage that would be under university management. (University of Hawaii – June 1, 2015)
P.S. The 10,000 acres you claim will be return to the people already belongs tothe people of Hawai`i pursuant to the States Admission Act and the laws of the Kingdom of Hawai`i. (Mauna Kea Hui – May 26, 2015)
Ensure Full UH Use
This request has to do with astronomical observing time.
The University will ensure the full use of its scheduled telescope time. (Governor David Ige – May 26, 2015)
We confirm the university is making, and will continue to make, full use of its observing time at Maunakea observatories. (University of Hawaii – June 1, 2015)
Revisit Sub-Lease Payments
The sub-leases for the existing observatories have already been negotiated, so its unclear how the university might go about accomplishing this, other than addressing it in conjunction with the renewal of the master lease.
… I am asking the University to make a good faith effort to revisit the issue of greater payments by the existing telescopes now as well as requiring it in the new lease. (Governor David Ige – May 26, 2015)
We will discuss with our sublessees the level of their investments in the operational and stewardship costs for the Mauna Kea Science Reserve as well as sublease payments under a new master lease. (University of Hawaii – June 1, 2015)
TMT Increase Support To Native Hawaiian Students
The Thirty Meter Telescope already makes an annual contribution of $1 million to The Hawaii Island New Knowledge (THINK) Fund, to “better prepare Hawaii Island students to master STEM and to become the workforce for higher paying science and technology jobs in Hawaii’s 21st century economy”. The fund is administered by the Hawaii Community Foundation and Pauahi Foundation. The governor wants TMT to consider giving more.
… I am asking the TMT leadership to significantly increase the level of support they are providing Native Hawaiian students interested in the areas of science and technology. This can include admission and scholarships at their own institutions or partner institutions. First priority would be for students on Hawai‘i Island and then to students statewide. (Governor David Ige – May 26, 2015)
The governor asked TMT to increase its support to Native Hawaiian students, particularly those from Hawaiʻi Island, who wish to pursue science and technology careers. UH recognizes its responsibilities in this area and we will launch a campaign for new scholarship programs for Hawaiʻi Island and Native Hawaiian students to increase their participation in the sciences. The university will allocate a portion of its observing time to UH Hilo for use in projects and programs to support greater participation and improved preparation of Hawaiʻi Island students for professional careers. (University of Hawaii – June 1, 2015)
This is commonly called a buyout. (Mauna Kea Hui – May 26, 2015)
This is the very example of how “S**T FLOATS TO THE TOP” and “IT’S WHO YOU KNOW OR WHO YOU BLOW!!!” These UH and Government Officials are a DISGRACE and they should be thrown in Jail!!!
Oh boy, TV Dinners again, mom!!!
Let me just ask one question…. If all of these telescopes were removed ( like it seems you want, because you perceive that ‘you have the Power now’,)if they were removed by their respective owners and you got the mountain back all cleaned up .. how much money would be taken out of the Big Islands governmental pocket ??….and also how much money in the ‘general economy’ affecting all of the businesses and livelihood of workers would be lost because of you zealot reaction to this situation?? How many government programs would have to be cut because of these actions? how many people who are borderline poor would now increase the lists of the needy?? the Big Is doesn’t have much to offer other than tourism, and even that you sneer at that … so what are you going to do to make up this short fall to peoples economic lives?? You perceive that you have the “Power” to reclaim the Mountain, and thats all well and good , however, with Power comes Responsibility and one must ask oneself about the ramifications of your actions in the long term.
Indict Ige for breach of contract and double speak!
HawaiiCommonLawGrandJury.com = People Power!
Get real. The money doesn’t get trickle down to people who actually
need it. Neither do income taxes from the slaves who volunteer out of ignorance and fear (that’s right, income tax is OPTIONAL). They go towards illegal wars abroad to murder brown people and into hostess bars and booze for the likes of Kenoi et al. Reality check!
Great idea Malama,
Indict them all and see real change happen. Be part of it and make history.
HawaiiCommonLawGrandJury.com = People Power!
Ever wonder how native Hawaiians (or native Americans) ever survived without tourism, telescopes, U.S. Inc? Didn’t know you could eat telescopes. Tourists are unpalatable. U.S. Inc. is a corporate fiction, not even real.
Do you actually think that young Hawaiians would like to go back to eating Poi and wearing grass skirts?? …the oceans do not produce much to feed thousands and how many even could make a boat any more?? what about their cell phones , TV , video games ??? Do you actually think they want to go back to some 17th century life?? get real!
what in the world are you talking about taxes from slaves who volunteer I think I understand illegal wars … but your comment sounds really pathetically drugged come back when you aren’t high!
Thats for sure !and Hawaii seems to have the most hilariously blatant corrupt government that I have ever seen !at least the other states try to hide their corruption ! ever try and actually get anything done i.e. build something?? good luck getting a building permit for months !!! or better yet get a license as a builder …. they keep losing your paperwork ( like 3 times until that envelope has a couple of Ks in it Then magically the license appears! hummmm
Sometimes education fails on some people, and that’s why such people enjoy fruits of 21-century science and in the same time they worship their tribal gods, believe in magic, consult with horoscopes etc.
It’s such a shame that instead of resisting religious and national fundamentalists, we must obey to their “rights”. Why do they think they own the mountain, just because their ancestor came there in the past through the ocean? They did not created it – the mountaint is created by nature millions of years old.
Does religious freedom mean that every weird religious tradition shoud be allowed and respected?
Well I guess in this case it does.I agree with your assessment of the fact that that they do not own the mountain. Their ancestors made up stories and gave religious significance to a mountain, or in other cultures a rock or a body of water or what ever.
Things are not sacred until some man suggests they are, and if he or she is respected for some reason then the rest of the people involved with him come to believe its ‘sacred’. why because so and so said it was. Early man needed ‘a thing’ to that they could see and touch to be God. The longer the story is told the stronger the belief becomes. But I say, Who gave the power to that man to suggest that that object was Sacred just because he said so???
In my personal belief I believe that God is Sacred, but a rock , a mountain , a waterfall, whatever can be a special place where one finds some peace or gains a psychological strength, but in it self is not sacred…. but see thats just my belief, and many others may have other ideas.
So, I could say that that is my belief and there is nothing sacred about that mountain. That there are certain places that should be respected such a a place where someone was buried, but other than that put up the telescope so that we may search into the universe as far as we can to see the wonders go God.
…and as far as religious freedom is concerned I guess if you live in the US it is allowed and respected because people have lost their center so to speak. They are afraid of being ‘politically incorrect’ which is the worst thing we have done in this century and has divided us as people, and drawn lines of hate in the sand. People who never gave a hoot about their ancestry now defend it with gusto, even though they have not a rats ass of knowledge about the history of the place, the famous people, or music , or food or dress customs… which by the way is the definition of culture. They have this stupid sometimes hollywood stereotype idea of what it means to be whatever culture place you identify with. I grew up at a time when people were proud to be American , and that meant we were a huge stew of so many cultures that people loved and hated but we still were Americans First. but I digress…..
Aloha Mikhail, with all due respect, “they” do not “think they own it.” They do believe they have a responsibility to be caretakers of a scared place for current and future generations. Please get that straight. By law, (US included), ‘they’ have RIGHTS to the land. If you knew anything about Kingdom law and US law you would know that. And how is it you call it a “weird religious tradition?” Seriously? What religious tradition isn’t a little weird to anyone from an “outsider’s position?” Perhaps if you learned more about what you deem “weird”, your heart and mind would open to what we all can learn from ancient Hawaiian beliefs and traditions. How is it “they” lived sustainably for thousands of years? How is it that ‘they’ fed hundreds of thousands of people without external imports? Why is it that each and every time I chant a certain chant passed down to me from a world renowned lineage predating 1400 AD a pueo {owl} shows up within 24 hours of the chant? Would you call that magic, weird religious tradition or simply call me a witch and burn me at the stake? After all I do come from Salem… Things that make you go hmmm…Aloha and have a great summer Mikhail. : )
Most Hawaiians I know do not see themselves as Americans First. NO. They see themselves as HAWAIIAN FIRST, AMERICAN BY FORCE. Get educated, please.
Maggie, almost everywhere on this planet some people have been taken over by force by some one else. In Europe it has happened so much it almost is second nature. this country America was settled by all of those people who were taken over BY…. someone or some thing (religion) or running from the law, or by starvation, or war. Quit being the victims!! Even Hawaii’s islands were taken over by someone before westerners ever got there . in that case he shoved all he people who didn’t want to join them off a cliff if I remember correctly , then forced all sorts of horrible laws on ‘His CONQUERED PEOPLE. And Hawaiians think he was the best thing since sliced bread. Why aren’t you victimized about that part of your history ???
After reading about the protests, I see that they really do feel so. But “AMERICAN BY FORCE” sounds much like anti-American attitude. Coupled with religious fundamentalism, how does it differ from, say, Islamism? The roots are the same: anti-modernism, territoriality, nationalism. A dangerous retrograde mixture.
How does it differ from Islamism? Seriously? Namely one word, ALOHA. Do you know the deeper meaning of the word? For the record, the Hawaiians I know personally who feel they are “American by force” also served the United States in several military actions abroad. My hanai Papa being one of them and also my mentor and many many others. These are not anti-American. People think you have to be against something in order to BE FOR SOMETHING. Hawaiians I know ARE NOT ANTI-AMERICAN. JUST for HAWAII, a free and sovereign nation based in ALOHA.
Dear Then Again, No need to give me a history lesson. I am well versed in world history and have traveled to every continent with the exception of Africa. No one is being a victim. That’s just the point. Aloha to you and have a great fist week of June.
Hmmm, that sounds interesting. I have to read more of it. Thank you.
well Maggie I am very happy you are a world traveler and that alone opens you eyes to peoples different ways of perceiving the world and that of course is good. However we will agree to disagree that the Hawaiians do not feel like victims. it is present in almost of peoples discussions about this mountain. and a sincere Aloha to you my dear.
Right. Because there was never an oppressive caste system in Hawaii before haole made landfall.
Kam I did what to his own people again? And with what combination of weapons?
And the invasive wild pig that has been one of the most destructive forces in the islands? Hawaiians are doing what to eradicate that pest and restore balance to the native flora and fauna they have decimated?
Your “understanding” of Hawaiian history is based almost entirely on romantic delusion. A partial truth is no better than a whole lie. In fact, it is often worse.
I guess you’d be happier being Chinese by force? Russian by force?
And what of the first inhabitants of Hawaii from the Marquesas, as some evidence suggests? They were virtually wiped out, by force, by the invading Tahitians.
What’s that you say about getting educated, “Maggie CONNOR?”
Yes, because Kam I just showered Hawaiians with “Aloha” when he went from island to island butchering anyone and everyone who refused to support his “vision” of a “unified” Hawaii under his sole and total control.
And the weapons he used? Yup, guns and cannons.
Free and Sovereign? HA!!! You really think China, Russia, Japan, the UK (largest land owner in the world by far at 6.6 billion acres – Americans barely chart in the top twenty, which is mostly non-whites and non-Europeans), or any other major power would leave Hawaii alone if the US pulled out?
You are totally delusional.
@mikhailbatcer:disqus
Read my reply to the zealot in question. I grew up on Oahu. My half-sister is directly descended from Hawaiian Ali’i and the Parker family.
Ms. Connor is delusional.
They lived sustainably…
By introducing one of the most destructive invasive species ever seen to the islands: the wild pig. If Hawaiians actually cared about sustainability they would have eradicated this pest long ago. But not only have they not done that they oppose any and all efforts to do so on the grounds of preserving their “traditions.”
And all the native birds that were wiped out for nothing but adorning capes with pretty feathers?
Sustainable my ass.
And what of all the Hawaiians who flock in droves to WalMart every single day. WalMart sucks huge amounts of revenues out of the state economy annually.
If this is your idea of “sustainable” you need a refresher on the term.
Most Hawaiians don’t pay income tax. If you make under a certain amount annually you not only don’t pay taxes you get an EIC boost on your return.
And even those who do pay nominal amounts in taxes could get all that back if they kept receipts on any and all business related transactions.
Lots of Hawaiians get multiple subsidies and federal assistance that are funded by, you guessed it, the state’s top earners who actually do pay taxes.
California’s top earners are among the most heavily taxed in the nation at 13%. Why don’t you compare this to the tax rates under Eisenhower (they were much, much higher and those revenues were use to vastly expand our nation’s transportation corridors, increasing and streamlining commerce and trade and making the US more prosperous than at any time in history).
What’s that you said about a reality check?
“Democracy s the tyranny of the people.”
– Aristotle.
But what did he know, right?
Hawaii’s government is held hostage by its unions.
Thats nonsense! corruption is the PERSON who is being corrupt not a union! do you think that the unions are encouraging their people to be on the take! God forbid we suggest its a personal responsibility to be ethical! no lets blame it on the unions!
There’s plenty of blame to go around.
Everyone’s susceptible, individuals AND groups.
You’re being naive.
I think, Russian authorities would be very glad to have their warships, submarines and planes in Hawaii 🙂 What a glory for Russia! They would pay a lot of money for it.
What about murdering of captain James Cook?
no, I am trying to be logical as well as realistic. To often we blame an entire bushel of apples for the few that are rotten, throwing the baby out with the bath water so to speak. Attack the people who need to be removed. In this job climate people often feel they cannot speak because they don’t know who they speak to. Meaning that they are afraid for their livelihood, and speaking out because of what they see could put their livelihood in jeopardy. People in this country who are whistleblowers don’t fare well. Look at Snowdon he had to run for his life because our government strong men would throw him in jail forever! and look at what he uncovered and the changes that are still being made . In 2012 he contacted the Guardian. and in July 2013 the story started to unfold. True that was a bomb shell, and what happens in Hawaii it would only seem like a fart to the world as a whole, but it would be wonderful if maybe someone who was retiring maybe could go out with a fire cracker that could blow up the department and not jeopardize his job . You call me Naive, well maybe, but I know that Truth Outs and eventually people have to be made accountable. But you also forget as do most people do, in a Democracy YOU ARE GOVERNMENT! you are often responsible for these people to staying in power. It is you as well as others that have to get off their fat duffs and work to Change the bad in Your Government! … not sit around and complain and blame unions. If people were treated fairly to begin with we wouldn’t need unions!. If you want change do it through PETITION,REFERENDUM , and VOTE. that is how you change the laws. I have been doing that since the 60s!
Do I sense sarcasm?
I’d say it’s more like cancer cells than apples.
And how easy is it to extricate cancer from tissue?
Your thinking is overly simplistic.
Well my way doesn’t use Chemo that can kill good cells as well, my way is more like a laser………and that is the ‘people’ insisting on change
You seriously think democracy and the popular vote is like a laser?!?
HAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHA!!!!!
Sorry, man, but that was pure comic gold.
no I feel that people targeting a problem and using the Democratic process of Petition, Referendum and finally Voting to change something is a Laser. The ‘popular vote’ is then much more effective because you have the real concerned citizens who have worked to overcome the problem getting out , and getting others out to change something through the Vote. I have been a part of that kind of Democracy several times in my life, from the 60s on. So what have you done to make something better , or to make people take responsibility for their actions that may have affected others lives, other than shooting off your mouth and blaming entire groups of people.?? If you don’t work to fix the problem you are part of the problem in my book.
You’re naive… in my book.
No, I’m seriously. They would be glad, if they only had a chance.
Mikhail, Perhaps you should read the journals of Captain Cook. If you are interested in history, they are a pretty epic read.
Hawaii was free and sovereign after KKI united the islands under one rule until the time of the illegal overthrow of 1892. Hawaii had treaties of commerce and friendship with many nations, the United States included. To expect an intelligent discussion with you as opposed to name calling…clearly that would be expecting too much. I apologize to ‘Then Again’ for ending above conversation with “get educated please”. Good day sir and good luck.
My Papa is direct descended from Kamehameha I. So what! Again, name calling shows just where your consciousness is at Mr. Albee Doh. Aloha and good day, and again good luck to you sir.
I will not deny some Hawaiians feel victimized. Indeed since their inheritance was stolen, customs, dances, language and spiritual beliefs made illegal, then I can clearly see how they would feel victimized. What people do not see is an empowerment that is happening as a result of the Religious Freedoms Act more and more Hawaiians are learning their language and culture. They are becoming empowered. So while I would never deny there are Hawaiians who feel victimized, from where I stand I fully empathize with how they would feel that way.
Again Mr Doh, I know the history.
My apologies to ‘Then Again’ for ending above conversation with “get educate, please.” It’s uncalled for. with aloha.
i never said they live sustainably now. In fact we as a State import close to 85% of all goods and services.
Then Again, Mr. Albee Doh name calls. PS; Sign of a bully. Just saying…friendly reminder from …now what did he call me?…oh that’s right…the zealot. {See posts above.} Aloha : )
Exactly who was “free and sovereign?” You paint this rosy picture as if all Hawaiians were just chillin’ under the crown, as if there were no discontent, as if there weren’t others who wanted to challenge the authority of the crown, as if the remaining descendants of those that Kam I and his successors massacred and subjugated were just so full of forgiveness.
And I didn’t call you names.
Your image of pre-US Hawaii is loaded with romantic delusions and confirmation bias. One slice ain’t the whole pie.
He brought that on himself. He and his crew vandalized one of the most revered sacraments that Hawaiians worshipped. They basically pulled the equivalent of walking into the Vatican and ripping materials from the walls. Bad move.
That’s a contradictory statement. To desire that the US remove itself from Hawaii and allow it to become fully autonomous is to be anti-American. It is a clear statement that you disagree so strongly with US policy that you want them out.
Who would protect Hawaii? Without a major power there’s no way they could fend for themselves. No way whatsoever. So who will Hawaii form alliances with to fend off occupation from another power?
Well?
Yet you fail to take it into account and weigh the variables.
You do realize that American is a nationality and not an ethnicity, yes?
No country in the world has as much ethnic diversity as the US. Why would you seek to extricate yourself from a nation that has fought harder than any other to embrace multiculturalism?
Sorry, but the most racist people in Hawaii aren’t the haoles. Not by a long shot. There is no other ethnic equivalent of “kill haole day” anywhere in Hawaii. Haoles (blonds and gingers especially) are singled out for beatings and prejudicial treatment more than any other non-Hawaiian and non-Polynesian group. And you know it.
Now you’re just contradicting yourself.
You speak of stewardship. You cannot not be a caretaker with a longview yet disregard the necessity of sustainability. That is a mutually incompatible stance.
No Hawaiian who truly cares about Hawaii would shop at WalMart.
You’re taking this particular event completely out of context.
Consider the year. Consider that Hawaiians were increasingly agitated by Cook and his crew. Consider that Cook destroyed a structure to use the materials for repairs.
You’re talking out of your ass on this subject. Do the research on the event in question then get back to us with an informed opinion.
Oh, and in case you missed it, I actually support the TMT.
I’ve never read about Cook destroying something. Instead, I read about a stealing of a big boat from one of the ships by natives, which inflamed the captain and led to failed attempt to return it resulting in Cook’s death.
Considering the year – well, it seems I misunderstood you, sorry.
Way more to the story than that. Keep reading.